The Only Thing That Moved

You know, the pro war crowd can be very convincing.  Sometimes I find myself even starting to waver a little after being subjected to a non stop litany of “We’re winning now, honest”, and “The American People want VICTORY!!!!!!”

Sometimes it’s just enough to almost forget the truth.

Hillary had already made the comment before the debate that she couldn’t commit to pulling out all combat troops by the end of her first term. For Hillary, who has tried to cast herself as a realist in foreign policy, that position makes some sense. For netroots favorites Barack Obama and John Edwards, though, it sounds like political suicide. The anti-war Left will not easily forgive them for those answers.

Those responses, though, come from the shift that has occurred over the last two months in public perception of the war. Americans don’t like to lose wars, and given the successes that Petraeus has generated, more Americans see an opportunity to persevere in Iraq. Leading Democrats realize now that running as the party of defeat when we continue to gain ground may sound good in the primaries, but will be disastrous in the general election.

You almost start to believe it don’t you?  Well, one thing you will most likely noticeis that more often than not, when these pro war guys (aka 26%ers) get on their kick about how much America’s perception of the war has change, what they are really referring to is a poll that was released in early August that showed a very slight increase in support for the surge.  That’s about it.

Aside from that, the only thing that has changed regarding the public support for the war has been the volume of the 26%ers, and little else.  To claim that the Petraeus and Bush circus earlier this month is not only brazen, but not even backed up by data.  Look, I got a pocket full of polls showing that if anything, public support is still declining for our efforts in Iraq.

No matter how loudly you try and shout it, saying that Americans want to stay in Iraq doesn’t make it so.  Trying to claim American’s want victory is just silly, like we’re turning war into a game of Monopoly or pick up football.  In fact, there are only two success that Republicans can claim when it comes to the political situation surrounding Iraq.

The first is the “Betray Us” ad, which is itself an insane issue to begin with.  Though having little bearing on anything, by focusing on the ad Republicans have been able to divert attention from actual news regarding Iraq, while at the same time making Congressional Democrats look like their bitches.

Their other victory, which is really very similar in nature, has been over the Democratic field, particularly in Hillary Clinton.  From day one, Obama has been cautious about his language regarding Iraq, and has never favored a complete and immediate pullout, but has always talked about ending the war responsibly.  However, as I already mentioned twice, Hillary has stumped largely on her promise to get us out of Iraq if we are still in there when she is president.  This rhetoric seems to have been forgotten.

But make no mistake, that is the only thing that has moved in this entire ordeal.  In the meantime, a large and increasingly pissed off majority of Americans STILL want us out of Iraq, the sooner the better.

4 Responses to “The Only Thing That Moved”

  1. Steve M. says:

    You found the Captain’s Quarters post at the top of the Memeorandum page, right? If you’re a regular Memeorandum reader, watch how often CQ and the Moderate Voice get very prominent placement — it’s for virtually every post. I turn to Memeorandum to get a sense of what’s going on in the blogosphere, and it’s usually an accurate gauge of interest — the top story really is what people are talking about. But when the top story is from CQ, I pay no attention — it’s just Memeorandum playing favorites again.

  2. Yeah, I’m the resident memeo junkie. While I won’t argue if memeo’s playing favorites or not, “Captain” Ed is playing a game I just had to call him out on the carpet for, and if that puts me as a top dissenter on memeo, I’ll take it.

    If all you read are these 26%er blogs, you’ll really believe that not only are we winning in Iraq, but America AGREES with us being over there, neither of which are true.

    Hey, since I got your ear, you wanna check this post out and see about maybe hitching onto our wagon for this cause?

    http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/09/in-honor

    Thanks for stoppin’ by!

  3. Jacqui says:

    After watching the first few hours of Ken Burns “War” it s clear why the gov’t refused to let Americans know how badly we were being beaten. In retrospect – are doing far better today in Iraq than we ever did during WW2 . Casualities don’t come close in Iraq to WW2.

    Todays Americans who keep insisting we are losing in Iraq are cowardly, deceitful, spoiled, feckless, irresponsible fools— who pride themselves on being so damn smart.

    Thankfully – the three democrat front runners are far to smart to lower themselves to the level of stupidity that the above referenced Democrats & liberals exude. One example is the writer of this piece – Kyle Moore.

    The Republicans did not did use MoveOn ad to divert away from the truth that Petreaus put forward. MoveOn bears the sole responsibility for creating any diversion – so desperate were they for attention. MoveOn should have learned from their massive failure during the run up to the 2004 election – but instead they repeated the same mistake . Stupid is as stupid does.

    A large pissed off majority of Americans would have wanted us out of WW2 – attack on Pearl Harbor or not — thankfully, the President knew better than to withdraw inspite of the heavy heavy losses our troops bore. and better than to let Americans know how bad things were. We prevailed then against odds hundreds of times worse – and we will prevail now.

    And by the way – the same Americans that want us out of Iraq now – are not the majority despite your misguided understanding of “polls” – but they are the Amercans that want to “have sex ” with the Iranian President – create polls to determine if he is “hot or not” – express belief in his every lie ( there are no homosexuals in Iran – the holocaust needs to be “examined” further since its questionable that it occurred – and ‘we don’t send weapons to Iraq – we can’t imagine how anything with our markings got there” & the biggest lie: we believe everyone has the right to practice whatever religion they want” – those lies are bought hook line and sinker by these so called majority of Americans that want us out of Iraq — never mind that Pres Imajahadist jails those who don’t follow the Mullahs dictates – oh an dnewsflash – he doesn’t believe the Jews should be allowed to exist – he doesn’t believe Sunni Muslims are true Muslims and should not be allowed to exist – and strangely he feels the same way about Christians and secularists.

    And yet “enlightened” liberals/dems love this man – simply because the hate Pres.Bush.

    Thankfully – the three Democrat frontrunners are smart enough not to pay attention to a increasingly stupid base of Democrats .

  4. *sigh* I’m never going to hear the end of it from Matt… But I’ll always put food in the trough at least once.

    “After watching the first few hours of Ken Burns “War” it s clear why the gov’t refused to let Americans know how badly we were being beaten. In retrospect – are doing far better today in Iraq than we ever did during WW2 . Casualities don’t come close in Iraq to WW2.”

    Because World War 2 and Iraq are ever so analogous. Because, see, World War 2 had a definitive goal, stopping Hitler, and was by most definitions, a conventional war complete with a uniformed enemy and everything, while Iraq… um… There’s fighting?

    Plus, I find your blanket casualties are better in Iraq so it MUST be going much better than WWII (as it’s more commonly known as) kinda funny. First, one of the reasons why casualties are better is because medical advances that I assume one could reasonably expect to develop over the course of, say, sixty years give or take have meant that we have been able to save a considerably larger number of soldiers from death. Once you start counting injured soldiers, the numbers get a little more bleak. Then we have to start counting Iraqi civilians, which, given who you believe, ranges from close to 70K to 700K (good luck on finding accurate data there…). And then we should probably take into account the number of Iraqi refugees, they too are a casualty of war, at which point we’re now talking millions.

    But I haven’t done a whole lot of research on WWII, so I’m not exactly sure how it stacks up to that. But wait, we’re not done yet… in fact, that’s the point, we’re still not done, and have no clue when we will be. The thing about WWII, a) it posed an a clear and significant threat, as evidenced by the attack on Pearl Harbor, and b) had a clear, defined, and attainable goal; force Hitler and his allies into surrendor. In Iraq, the conflict does not even begin to approach that level of simplicity (which is saying something considering that WWII was by no means simple). There is no enemy to beat into surrender, unless, as you undoubtedly will if you do respond to this, bring up AQI which accounts for less than ten percent of the violence there. Ooh, getting them to wave the white flag is a big deal, isn’t it?

    “Todays Americans who keep insisting we are losing in Iraq are cowardly, deceitful, spoiled, feckless, irresponsible fools— who pride themselves on being so damn smart.”

    Care to back it up? Or were you just going with a pointless diatribe?

    “Thankfully – the three democrat front runners are far to smart to lower themselves to the level of stupidity that the above referenced Democrats & liberals exude. One example is the writer of this piece – Kyle Moore.”

    Um… thanks? Oh…oh… I’m supposed to be crying myself to sleep right… I’ll get right on it.

    “The Republicans did not did use MoveOn ad to divert away from the truth that Petreaus put forward. MoveOn bears the sole responsibility for creating any diversion – so desperate were they for attention. MoveOn should have learned from their massive failure during the run up to the 2004 election – but instead they repeated the same mistake . Stupid is as stupid does. ”

    Bullshit. Yes, MoveOn initiated it, but if you think Republicans didn’t use that to their advantage completely and totally for their own political gain, you’re about as dumb as… well… you claim I am. Either that, or the ad itself would have resulted in the utter and immediate destruction of our union, and time in congress had to be spent therefore condemning the ad. In truth, that was nothing more than a political move, one that kind of frowns on the first amendment and sets a dangerous precedent of the Congress levying opinions on what is put out in a private publication. Further, they used it to draw attention from the actual Iraq War, as well as again force Democrats into submission, all of which was for mere political gain.

    There is no need to hold a vote on the Senate floor about a goddamn ad. Period.

    Screw, I just don’t have time to reply to all of this. Though, I will also mention that if four polls weren’t enough, then, really, you’re just never going to ever come to grips with any reality not already decided upon by you, and that pretty much means this whole thing is pointless.

    Damn Matt, you are right, don’t feed the trolls.

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