Comments on: The Other Problem With Ron Paul Supporters http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters Wed, 09 May 2012 10:28:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Carole http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-9034 Carole Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:21:30 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-9034 I don't know why I'm even wasting my time with this one - Kyle, but I just had to write and ask "Have considered buying some brain cells lately"? A study of history will provide them for free! www.RonPaul2008.com I don’t know why I’m even wasting my time with this one – Kyle, but I just had to write and ask “Have considered buying some brain cells lately”?

A study of history will provide them for free!

http://www.RonPaul2008.com

]]> By: lester http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7775 lester Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:53:37 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7775 I'm sorry man. that was rude "my bad" as they say I’m sorry man. that was rude “my bad” as they say

]]> By: matttbastard http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7770 matttbastard Sat, 06 Oct 2007 19:14:24 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7770 As always, your rapier wit <em>wounds</em>, Lester. Like being stabbed with a wooden spoon. As always, your rapier wit wounds, Lester.

Like being stabbed with a wooden spoon.

]]> By: lester http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7766 lester Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:47:15 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7766 "But if I changed my tone towards Paul, it would be primarily because of his supporters," this really hurts because you are such an important person in american society. without your endorsement I mean, jeez. we better just call it a day “But if I changed my tone towards Paul, it would be primarily because of his supporters,”

this really hurts because you are such an important person in american society. without your endorsement I mean, jeez. we better just call it a day

]]> By: lester http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7765 lester Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:45:12 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7765 all the ron paul bashing in the world won't change the fact that this is a very mediocre blog that features information amply covered a thousand other places, including the "MSM" all the ron paul bashing in the world won’t change the fact that this is a very mediocre blog that features information amply covered a thousand other places, including the “MSM”

]]> By: John http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7581 John Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:28:07 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7581 Since the mainstream media isn't doing Ron Paul any favors, I get most of my Ron Paul news from various online articles, and I have yet to see a Ron Paul supporter act rude in reply to any online article. Since the mainstream media isn’t doing Ron Paul any favors, I get most of my Ron Paul news from various online articles, and I have yet to see a Ron Paul supporter act rude in reply to any online article.

]]> By: Chris http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7513 Chris Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:09:52 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7513 I know of a few other 'blips on the radar' that were misread by the same folks who are misreading Ron Paul. They made it all the way. I know of a few other ‘blips on the radar’ that were misread by the same folks who are misreading Ron Paul. They made it all the way.

]]> By: Mark Joplin http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7496 Mark Joplin Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:20:23 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7496 Studies show that most Americans now spend more time on the Internet than watching TV. Internet users represent a very broad section of the American public. Therefore, if a candidate has a large Internet following, they have a large following in the US. If a candidate has a large TV following, this is not necessarily the case, however. Studies show that most Americans now spend more time on the Internet than watching TV. Internet users represent a very broad section of the American public. Therefore, if a candidate has a large Internet following, they have a large following in the US. If a candidate has a large TV following, this is not necessarily the case, however.

]]> By: Publius Endures http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7494 Publius Endures Thu, 04 Oct 2007 05:24:10 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7494 Matt Bastard: I wouldn't worry about Paul as a third-party competitor to Hillary (who scares me as much as Giuliani in terms of her willingness to further expand Executive Power). At least half of RP's support (the less vocal half, I might add) comes from disillusioned Republicans who remember that the GOP used to be about small government. In a general election, I would expect that to be more on the order of 75%. RP will not appeal to many Dems over the age of 25- I can't imagine many Dems supporting his anarcho-capitalism when Hillary will talk a good enough game about civil liberties and bringing the troops home. Historically, almost all small "l" libertarians voted Republican (if they voted at all), and even thought of themselves as primarily Republicans- only the most hard-core ever actually voted for the Libertarian Party. However, the Republican Party no longer stands for anything recognizable to even those libertarians who refused to consider themselves as libertarians. But the Democratic Party's recent disavowal of Bill Clinton's small government politics makes them every bit as bad as the Republicans for most of us. This means that Ron Paul represents sort of a last ditch effort for (small-l) libertarians to reclaim a seat at the table in our two-party system. If he doesn't win the nomination, then I would expect most libertarians/disillusioned Republicans to either stay home on election day, or vote for a third party even if RP isn't on the ballot. Matt Bastard:
I wouldn’t worry about Paul as a third-party competitor to Hillary (who scares me as much as Giuliani in terms of her willingness to further expand Executive Power). At least half of RP’s support (the less vocal half, I might add) comes from disillusioned Republicans who remember that the GOP used to be about small government. In a general election, I would expect that to be more on the order of 75%. RP will not appeal to many Dems over the age of 25- I can’t imagine many Dems supporting his anarcho-capitalism when Hillary will talk a good enough game about civil liberties and bringing the troops home.

Historically, almost all small “l” libertarians voted Republican (if they voted at all), and even thought of themselves as primarily Republicans- only the most hard-core ever actually voted for the Libertarian Party. However, the Republican Party no longer stands for anything recognizable to even those libertarians who refused to consider themselves as libertarians.

But the Democratic Party’s recent disavowal of Bill Clinton’s small government politics makes them every bit as bad as the Republicans for most of us. This means that Ron Paul represents sort of a last ditch effort for (small-l) libertarians to reclaim a seat at the table in our two-party system. If he doesn’t win the nomination, then I would expect most libertarians/disillusioned Republicans to either stay home on election day, or vote for a third party even if RP isn’t on the ballot.

]]> By: matttbastard http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7489 matttbastard Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:38:08 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7489 At this point, the fundraising numbers alone indicate that Paul has more credibility (and clout) as a viable candidate that Huckabee or (snicker) McCain (to say nothing of Hunter or Tancredo, who are both done like refried beans). However, as PE and JCline both note, that newfound credibility is continually undermined by cult-like group think, which only serves to reinforce the leeriness those who are familiar with RP's ties to the far right/militia/conspiracy groups (eg, Alex Jones and the Prison Planet/InfoWars tinfoil crew). But I ain't gonna concern troll. Please, <em>keep</em> the faith; remain utterly rEVOLting. Going on about 'international bankers' (y'all <em>gotta</em> realize what that's dogwhistle code for), "Test Thyself As Well As Thy Brother", and the CFR doesn't do your cause any good, which is <em>just fine by me</em>. With numbers like what was just released, my biggest concern is another Nader-like third party run that ends up splitting the progressive/antiwar vote off from the Dems, allowing the GOP to slide Giuliani (or *shudder* Thompson) into the White House. (And yes, this does fall under the lesser evil principle, but trust me: Senator Clinton <i>is</i> the lesser evil, when compared to the GOP 'double Guantanamo/civil liberties/smivil liberties squad.) So keep doing your <em>god</em>damndest to undermine your <strike>deity</strike> preferred candidate with zealous insanity, because if this growing momentum carries past the primaries (and beyond limited online borders) it may very well prompt RP to consider running as an independent. At this point, the fundraising numbers alone indicate that Paul has more credibility (and clout) as a viable candidate that Huckabee or (snicker) McCain (to say nothing of Hunter or Tancredo, who are both done like refried beans). However, as PE and JCline both note, that newfound credibility is continually undermined by cult-like group think, which only serves to reinforce the leeriness those who are familiar with RP’s ties to the far right/militia/conspiracy groups (eg, Alex Jones and the Prison Planet/InfoWars tinfoil crew).

But I ain’t gonna concern troll. Please, keep the faith; remain utterly rEVOLting. Going on about ‘international bankers’ (y’all gotta realize what that’s dogwhistle code for), “Test Thyself As Well As Thy Brother”, and the CFR doesn’t do your cause any good, which is just fine by me. With numbers like what was just released, my biggest concern is another Nader-like third party run that ends up splitting the progressive/antiwar vote off from the Dems, allowing the GOP to slide Giuliani (or *shudder* Thompson) into the White House.

(And yes, this does fall under the lesser evil principle, but trust me: Senator Clinton is the lesser evil, when compared to the GOP ‘double Guantanamo/civil liberties/smivil liberties squad.)

So keep doing your goddamndest to undermine your deity preferred candidate with zealous insanity, because if this growing momentum carries past the primaries (and beyond limited online borders) it may very well prompt RP to consider running as an independent.

]]> By: Publius Endures http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7485 Publius Endures Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:56:06 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7485 Zappa: That is one poll out of many. Additionally, it is a poll that is rarely, if ever, cited by major news outlets. Finally, Rasmussen didn't start including Huckabee in the poll until he surprised everyone at the Iowa straw poll. There are a variety of reasons why one poll might ask questions one way, and another might ask them another way. Is it unfair to RP supporters? Yes, but as RP himself would probably point out, life is unfair. Does this somehow affect only RP and not Tancredo, Brownback, Hunter, etc.? Of course not. RP is listed in the polls that are most frequently (and pretty much exclusively) cited by TV and print media outlets: Gallup, ABC/Wash Post, Reuters/Zogby, and Pew. Fact is, RP supporters (and again, I am one) need to earn credibility before they can expect to be treated credibly. Going on to message boards to rant and rave at anyone who doesn't go whole hog in their support of Paul doesn't do anything to earn credibility; it does just the opposite. Raising $5 million in one quarter? That earns some credibility, as the ABC report tonight showed. Getting high profile endorsements earns credibility as well- but no high profile figure is going to stick their neck out for a campaign if its supporters are primarily known for their conspiracy theories. Zappa:
That is one poll out of many. Additionally, it is a poll that is rarely, if ever, cited by major news outlets. Finally, Rasmussen didn’t start including Huckabee in the poll until he surprised everyone at the Iowa straw poll.
There are a variety of reasons why one poll might ask questions one way, and another might ask them another way. Is it unfair to RP supporters? Yes, but as RP himself would probably point out, life is unfair. Does this somehow affect only RP and not Tancredo, Brownback, Hunter, etc.? Of course not. RP is listed in the polls that are most frequently (and pretty much exclusively) cited by TV and print media outlets: Gallup, ABC/Wash Post, Reuters/Zogby, and Pew.
Fact is, RP supporters (and again, I am one) need to earn credibility before they can expect to be treated credibly. Going on to message boards to rant and rave at anyone who doesn’t go whole hog in their support of Paul doesn’t do anything to earn credibility; it does just the opposite. Raising $5 million in one quarter? That earns some credibility, as the ABC report tonight showed. Getting high profile endorsements earns credibility as well- but no high profile figure is going to stick their neck out for a campaign if its supporters are primarily known for their conspiracy theories.

]]> By: FZappa http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7473 FZappa Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:54:26 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7473 Matt and Publius: Let's keep this simple: we have many reports, and I linked to one, of Rasmussen polling by asking respondents which of five candidates they support -- Romney, Giuliani, McCain, Thompson, Huckabee -- and then adding an option of "other." Only after pressing for "other" is the respondent made aware that there are additional choices when you get past the "other." Rasmussen then reports these results without stating that this is their methodology. Do you not believe this to be strongly biased against the "other" choices? Matt and Publius:

Let’s keep this simple: we have many reports, and I linked to one, of Rasmussen polling by asking respondents which of five candidates they support — Romney, Giuliani, McCain, Thompson, Huckabee — and then adding an option of “other.” Only after pressing for “other” is the respondent made aware that there are additional choices when you get past the “other.”

Rasmussen then reports these results without stating that this is their methodology.

Do you not believe this to be strongly biased against the “other” choices?

]]> By: Brad http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7463 Brad Thu, 04 Oct 2007 00:33:14 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7463 Those who are easily rattled by prattle will succumb to emotional atrophy. Fear Drives many things in this country today. I have seen exactly what you detest in reverse fashion. Pity the inept. Educate the small. Do not break down due to instant urge. Without Test, Faith And Paradigm Are allowed To Be Fiction. Argue only issue. Test Thyself As Well As Thy Brother. The Message Is More Important Than The Man. Do not rely on second hand information or implication. Read About Ron Paul's Views By His Own Hand; And Then Argue with Ammo If So Compelled. Do Not Dismiss Him Because Of Others. Understanding Is Not Mandatory. It Is A Great Human who can Understand another's Views without accepting them. It Is a Greater Human that can Change Their Own Views when new data presents itself. To Let Others Rule Your Mind Is To Do Their Bidding. Think Free; Question All. Those who are easily rattled by prattle will succumb to emotional atrophy.

Fear Drives many things in this country today.

I have seen exactly what you detest in reverse fashion.

Pity the inept. Educate the small. Do not break down due to instant urge.

Without Test, Faith And Paradigm Are allowed To Be Fiction.

Argue only issue.

Test Thyself As Well As Thy Brother.

The Message Is More Important Than The Man. Do not rely on second hand information or implication. Read About Ron Paul’s Views By His Own Hand; And Then Argue with Ammo If So Compelled. Do Not Dismiss Him Because Of Others.

Understanding Is Not Mandatory.

It Is A Great Human who can Understand another’s Views without accepting them.

It Is a Greater Human that can Change Their Own Views when new data presents itself.

To Let Others Rule Your Mind Is To Do Their Bidding. Think Free; Question All.

]]> By: K Dawson http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7457 K Dawson Thu, 04 Oct 2007 00:01:05 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7457 Well, sometimes aggressive outreach and campaigning is what it takes to get noticed. None of the mainstream media is reporting on Ron Paul. I think that this is frustrating for people who support Ron Paul. You have a guy who has a good message and is trying to get the word out. But, it isn't an uphill battle... it's a vertical epic! The mainstream media is AFRAID of Ron Paul. They are going out of their way to avoid putting him in polls or reporting about his campaign. The Ron Paul supporters are trying to attract attention to the campaign and sometimes the only way to do that is to make some noise. You can ignore some background hum. You can ignore a quiet droning sound. But, when the message reaches a loud crescendo there is absolutely no way to ignore it. The harder you try to ignore Ron Paul the louder the outcry will become. So, if you REALLY want to cut down on the amount of Ron Paul 'noise' that you are getting in your blogs and in your forums --- then TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES! Write stories about all the candidates and their campaigns and be sure to include factual information about Ron Paul's campaign. Writing him off as a kook or an annoyance only makes it worse. When you (the bloggers and journalists of the world) start to talk about Ron Paul then the noise from the fans will start to quiet down again. Ignore Ron Paul at your own risk. The more you ignore him the louder it gets in here. Well, sometimes aggressive outreach and campaigning is what it takes to get noticed. None of the mainstream media is reporting on Ron Paul. I think that this is frustrating for people who support Ron Paul. You have a guy who has a good message and is trying to get the word out. But, it isn’t an uphill battle… it’s a vertical epic! The mainstream media is AFRAID of Ron Paul. They are going out of their way to avoid putting him in polls or reporting about his campaign. The Ron Paul supporters are trying to attract attention to the campaign and sometimes the only way to do that is to make some noise. You can ignore some background hum. You can ignore a quiet droning sound. But, when the message reaches a loud crescendo there is absolutely no way to ignore it. The harder you try to ignore Ron Paul the louder the outcry will become.

So, if you REALLY want to cut down on the amount of Ron Paul ‘noise’ that you are getting in your blogs and in your forums — then TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES! Write stories about all the candidates and their campaigns and be sure to include factual information about Ron Paul’s campaign. Writing him off as a kook or an annoyance only makes it worse. When you (the bloggers and journalists of the world) start to talk about Ron Paul then the noise from the fans will start to quiet down again.

Ignore Ron Paul at your own risk. The more you ignore him the louder it gets in here.

]]> By: Publius Endures http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters/comment-page-1#comment-7452 Publius Endures Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:22:28 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/the-other-problem-with-ron-paul-supporters#comment-7452 Kyle: Thank you for your respectful response. I just wanted to add two more things, in response to Zappa's posts that get to the core of the problems I have with some of RP's supporters: 1. The polls are not "rigged." It may be that RP's support is a couple of points higher due to undersampling of cell phone only households; however, this would still get him only to at most 7 or 8 percent. Also, the polls only ask you who you're voting for if you're actually a registered Republican eligible to vote in your state's primary. In most places, though, most people have no idea who Ron Paul is; attempting to get people to know who he is by evangelicizing will either convert them or, more likely, make them decide they will never support him under any circumstances. 2. There is no "media blackout." The media covers that which it believes people are interested in. If RP isn't showing up in the scientific polls in a noticeable way, has no high profile endorsements, and lacks the support of the establishment (ie, the people who the media actually know and thus mistakenly assume represent the country at large, hence the term "Beltway Bubble"), then they won't dedicate much coverage to him. Now, RP had a big fundraising quarter; this is something the media can understand because it is a traditional measure of success. As a result, you are seeing the media give RP a sudden slew of coverage (which will fade rapidly, of course). Again, sorry for the lengthy comment- it's a bad habit of mine. Kyle:
Thank you for your respectful response. I just wanted to add two more things, in response to Zappa’s posts that get to the core of the problems I have with some of RP’s supporters:
1. The polls are not “rigged.” It may be that RP’s support is a couple of points higher due to undersampling of cell phone only households; however, this would still get him only to at most 7 or 8 percent. Also, the polls only ask you who you’re voting for if you’re actually a registered Republican eligible to vote in your state’s primary. In most places, though, most people have no idea who Ron Paul is; attempting to get people to know who he is by evangelicizing will either convert them or, more likely, make them decide they will never support him under any circumstances.
2. There is no “media blackout.” The media covers that which it believes people are interested in. If RP isn’t showing up in the scientific polls in a noticeable way, has no high profile endorsements, and lacks the support of the establishment (ie, the people who the media actually know and thus mistakenly assume represent the country at large, hence the term “Beltway Bubble”), then they won’t dedicate much coverage to him. Now, RP had a big fundraising quarter; this is something the media can understand because it is a traditional measure of success. As a result, you are seeing the media give RP a sudden slew of coverage (which will fade rapidly, of course).
Again, sorry for the lengthy comment- it’s a bad habit of mine.

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