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	<title>Comments on: At This Point Why Don&#8217;t We Just Reinstate the Poll Tax and Literacy Tests?</title>
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	<link>http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/at-this-point-why-dont-we-just-reinstate-the-poll-tax-and-literacy-tests</link>
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		<title>By: matttbastard</title>
		<link>http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/at-this-point-why-dont-we-just-reinstate-the-poll-tax-and-literacy-tests/comment-page-1#comment-35833</link>
		<dc:creator>matttbastard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 20:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4122#comment-35833</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m more convinced than ever that leftist politics is a symptom of a mental disorder, and that systematic dissembling is another of the symptoms of this disorder. I am sickened.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

*Holds out tiny paper cup* 

If you&#039;re gonna spew, spew into this.

Jesus. For someone so &lt;i&gt;genuinely&lt;/i&gt; upset about stalwart GOP supporters being &quot;unfairly&quot; pegged as &quot;unthinking, homophobic, bigoted haters of the poor&quot;, you&#039;re sure as pig-shit not helping the apparently erroneous perception by regurgitating all-too-familiar xenophobic, fact-challenged concern trollery in an especially hackalicious, matryr-posing fashion (&lt;i&gt;Diogenes&lt;/i&gt;? Yeah, try not to burn your little fingies on the oil, precious. And don&#039;t forget to turn out the lights when you leave.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m more convinced than ever that leftist politics is a symptom of a mental disorder, and that systematic dissembling is another of the symptoms of this disorder. I am sickened.</p></blockquote>
<p>*Holds out tiny paper cup* </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re gonna spew, spew into this.</p>
<p>Jesus. For someone so <i>genuinely</i> upset about stalwart GOP supporters being &#8220;unfairly&#8221; pegged as &#8220;unthinking, homophobic, bigoted haters of the poor&#8221;, you&#8217;re sure as pig-shit not helping the apparently erroneous perception by regurgitating all-too-familiar xenophobic, fact-challenged concern trollery in an especially hackalicious, matryr-posing fashion (<i>Diogenes</i>? Yeah, try not to burn your little fingies on the oil, precious. And don&#8217;t forget to turn out the lights when you leave.)</p>
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		<title>By: tas</title>
		<link>http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/at-this-point-why-dont-we-just-reinstate-the-poll-tax-and-literacy-tests/comment-page-1#comment-35827</link>
		<dc:creator>tas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 18:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4122#comment-35827</guid>
		<description>Plumb Bob, stop setting up strawman so we can can get to an actual conversation.  If you would, answer a couple questions for me: 

1. Is it not the job of a municipality to check the citizenship of anyone who registers to vote? 
2. Do the stricter voter ID laws not favor Republicans since they would restrict -- inadvertently or not -- more urban voters from exercising their right to participate in our government? 

In the case of question 1, I think we both know what the answer is.  Given the case that city and town workers are supposed to verify the status of those who register to vote, what&#039;s the point of checking at the polls?  This is a needless redundancy meant to harass people.  If the laws restricting non-citizens from voting are already being enforced beforehand, then there&#039;s new need for additional laws.  And if those laws aren&#039;t being enforced beforehand, then they should be -- without the need for any additional laws. 

But, if in a case that they are needed, then question 2 needs to be addressed.  If you indeed care about keeping non-citizens from voting without restricting the rights of legal voters in urban areas, then I don&#039;t expect you would mind your tax dollars going towards outreach aimed at those voters telling them this is what they need to do in order to not be disenfranchised come November.  These outreach efforts should include increase staff at City Halls so citizens can easily get their birth certificates. 

Regardless, none of this should be needed because additional laws to keep non-citizens from voting shouldn&#039;t needed to be added in the first place.  If you think there&#039;s a problem with non-citizens voting, Plumb Bob, then why aren&#039;t you pining for the current laws to be more enforced?  Why do you want to add more red tape that effects all voters?  It just doesn&#039;t make sense, Plumb Bob -- and that&#039;s why it makes it look like you, and other Republicans supporting these new laws, have ulterior motives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plumb Bob, stop setting up strawman so we can can get to an actual conversation.  If you would, answer a couple questions for me: </p>
<p>1. Is it not the job of a municipality to check the citizenship of anyone who registers to vote?<br />
2. Do the stricter voter ID laws not favor Republicans since they would restrict &#8212; inadvertently or not &#8212; more urban voters from exercising their right to participate in our government? </p>
<p>In the case of question 1, I think we both know what the answer is.  Given the case that city and town workers are supposed to verify the status of those who register to vote, what&#8217;s the point of checking at the polls?  This is a needless redundancy meant to harass people.  If the laws restricting non-citizens from voting are already being enforced beforehand, then there&#8217;s new need for additional laws.  And if those laws aren&#8217;t being enforced beforehand, then they should be &#8212; without the need for any additional laws. </p>
<p>But, if in a case that they are needed, then question 2 needs to be addressed.  If you indeed care about keeping non-citizens from voting without restricting the rights of legal voters in urban areas, then I don&#8217;t expect you would mind your tax dollars going towards outreach aimed at those voters telling them this is what they need to do in order to not be disenfranchised come November.  These outreach efforts should include increase staff at City Halls so citizens can easily get their birth certificates. </p>
<p>Regardless, none of this should be needed because additional laws to keep non-citizens from voting shouldn&#8217;t needed to be added in the first place.  If you think there&#8217;s a problem with non-citizens voting, Plumb Bob, then why aren&#8217;t you pining for the current laws to be more enforced?  Why do you want to add more red tape that effects all voters?  It just doesn&#8217;t make sense, Plumb Bob &#8212; and that&#8217;s why it makes it look like you, and other Republicans supporting these new laws, have ulterior motives.</p>
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		<title>By: DrGail</title>
		<link>http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/at-this-point-why-dont-we-just-reinstate-the-poll-tax-and-literacy-tests/comment-page-1#comment-35808</link>
		<dc:creator>DrGail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 15:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4122#comment-35808</guid>
		<description>Plumb Bob, your reasoning would be spot-on and your criticism would be accurately aimed if, indeed, there was any evidence that undocumented aliens were voting (in Missouri or any other state).  

I have not seen any proof of this and am somewhat doubtful that it is happening.  However, I am a reasonable person who believes well-collected data when I see it (after all, I &lt;b&gt;did&lt;/b&gt; live in Missouri -- the &quot;show me&quot; state -- for some time), so show me some proof.  I can be convinced that I&#039;m wrong, but I can&#039;t be browbeaten.

The skepticism Kyle expressed is based on the philosophical foundation that wholesale and organized voter fraud is to be prevented by all possible means, while taking care to ensure that people who are fully eligible to vote are not prevented from doing so. 

 It is akin, at least in my mind, to the judicial system which holds as its highest ideal the commitment to ensuring that no innocent person is found guilty.  If that means that guilty people go free (which of course happens), then there is work to be done to refine the system.  However, such refinements should NEVER increase the likelihood that the innocent are found guilty.

Imperfections exist.  We all wish that were not so, but it&#039;s unavoidable.  For myself, I would rather accept that some people vote illegitimately than see large swaths of people illegitimately prevented from voting.  Our country has been down that road in the past, and it ain&#039;t pretty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plumb Bob, your reasoning would be spot-on and your criticism would be accurately aimed if, indeed, there was any evidence that undocumented aliens were voting (in Missouri or any other state).  </p>
<p>I have not seen any proof of this and am somewhat doubtful that it is happening.  However, I am a reasonable person who believes well-collected data when I see it (after all, I <b>did</b> live in Missouri &#8212; the &#8220;show me&#8221; state &#8212; for some time), so show me some proof.  I can be convinced that I&#8217;m wrong, but I can&#8217;t be browbeaten.</p>
<p>The skepticism Kyle expressed is based on the philosophical foundation that wholesale and organized voter fraud is to be prevented by all possible means, while taking care to ensure that people who are fully eligible to vote are not prevented from doing so. </p>
<p> It is akin, at least in my mind, to the judicial system which holds as its highest ideal the commitment to ensuring that no innocent person is found guilty.  If that means that guilty people go free (which of course happens), then there is work to be done to refine the system.  However, such refinements should NEVER increase the likelihood that the innocent are found guilty.</p>
<p>Imperfections exist.  We all wish that were not so, but it&#8217;s unavoidable.  For myself, I would rather accept that some people vote illegitimately than see large swaths of people illegitimately prevented from voting.  Our country has been down that road in the past, and it ain&#8217;t pretty.</p>
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		<title>By: Plumb Bob</title>
		<link>http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/at-this-point-why-dont-we-just-reinstate-the-poll-tax-and-literacy-tests/comment-page-1#comment-35792</link>
		<dc:creator>Plumb Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 13:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4122#comment-35792</guid>
		<description>At first I thought I&#039;d found my prize-winner, but no, despite the reasoned tone of your essay, you still don&#039;t make the grade.

I&#039;ve been touring left-leaning blogs that responded to Missouri&#039;s proposed citizenship-check voting requirement, looking for one that at least acknowledges that Democrats expect a flood of votes from illegal aliens, and that Republicans have a legitimate reason to be concerned about it. I feel like Diogenes with his lantern, looking for an honest man. I haven&#039;t found one yet.

Look, I know you guys think all Republicans are unthinking, homophobic, bigoted haters of the poor (despite the fact that we&#039;re provably more charitable than you, when spending our own time and money.) But God damn it, how can I possibly take you seriously as honest men if you can&#039;t acknowledge the simple, obvious truth that Democrats hope for a boost from 12 million aliens who entered our country illegally and traditionally vote Democratic? Do you really believe you can get away with ignoring the obvious?

I&#039;m more convinced than ever that leftist politics is a symptom of a mental disorder, and that systematic dissembling is another of the symptoms of this disorder. I am sickened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At first I thought I&#8217;d found my prize-winner, but no, despite the reasoned tone of your essay, you still don&#8217;t make the grade.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been touring left-leaning blogs that responded to Missouri&#8217;s proposed citizenship-check voting requirement, looking for one that at least acknowledges that Democrats expect a flood of votes from illegal aliens, and that Republicans have a legitimate reason to be concerned about it. I feel like Diogenes with his lantern, looking for an honest man. I haven&#8217;t found one yet.</p>
<p>Look, I know you guys think all Republicans are unthinking, homophobic, bigoted haters of the poor (despite the fact that we&#8217;re provably more charitable than you, when spending our own time and money.) But God damn it, how can I possibly take you seriously as honest men if you can&#8217;t acknowledge the simple, obvious truth that Democrats hope for a boost from 12 million aliens who entered our country illegally and traditionally vote Democratic? Do you really believe you can get away with ignoring the obvious?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more convinced than ever that leftist politics is a symptom of a mental disorder, and that systematic dissembling is another of the symptoms of this disorder. I am sickened.</p>
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