Comments on: Explaining Atrios http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/explaining-atrios Loaning brain cells to those in need since 2003 Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:42:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: The Mahablog » Obama’s Fatal Flaws http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/explaining-atrios#comment-35165 The Mahablog » Obama’s Fatal Flaws Thu, 08 May 2008 12:37:13 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4086#comment-35165 [...] Kyle Moore: Armando failed to actually discuss ways of solving it, or, for that matter, do anything besides complain about the perceived taboo of talking about Obama’s failure to appeal to White Voters, thus murdering the one saving grace of his post. [...] [...] Kyle Moore: Armando failed to actually discuss ways of solving it, or, for that matter, do anything besides complain about the perceived taboo of talking about Obama’s failure to appeal to White Voters, thus murdering the one saving grace of his post. [...]

]]> By: Kyle E. Moore http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/explaining-atrios#comment-35133 Kyle E. Moore Thu, 08 May 2008 09:55:48 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4086#comment-35133 Thank you very much, Gail, as I keep saying, it's an important issue to me. I really don't have much to disagree with you upon other than I do wonder about the Archie Bunker Demographic staying home. John McCain can be right up at least some of their alleys. I think the key is to make sure that not a single person in this country misunderstands the proximity between Bush and McCain on the economy. Thank you very much, Gail, as I keep saying, it’s an important issue to me.

I really don’t have much to disagree with you upon other than I do wonder about the Archie Bunker Demographic staying home. John McCain can be right up at least some of their alleys. I think the key is to make sure that not a single person in this country misunderstands the proximity between Bush and McCain on the economy.

]]> By: This Won’t Go Over Well at All | Comments from Left Field http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/explaining-atrios#comment-35122 This Won’t Go Over Well at All | Comments from Left Field Thu, 08 May 2008 09:14:16 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4086#comment-35122 [...] coming after I’ve already dedicated a lot of time to the discussion of racial demographics within our party.  To save you the grief of having to reread all of [...] [...] coming after I’ve already dedicated a lot of time to the discussion of racial demographics within our party.  To save you the grief of having to reread all of [...]

]]> By: DrGail http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/explaining-atrios#comment-35053 DrGail Thu, 08 May 2008 02:14:57 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4086#comment-35053 Very interesting Kyle, especially your thoughts about the difficulty Obama has attracting white voters <b>only</b> in certain areas of the country. I wonder, though, whether what distinguishes these areas from the country from, say, the west, is the Mason-Dixon line or rather one of socioeconomic status? Perhaps Hillary's use of the term "blue collar" is not just a subtle way of saying "white", but instead is a dog whistle to people you have felt bypassed and disenfranchised not just during the Bush Administration but during Bill Clinton's administration as well, and perhaps even back through GWBush and Reagan. Those folks would be the people in the Rust Belt as well as the South, and most particularly through the Appalachian regions (western VA, WV, KY, TN, southeastern OH). People who are suffering and feel like practically the whole world is stepping on them <b>always</b> look for someone to see as being subordinate, hence the racial tensions. Being distrustful and disdainful of the "other", whoever the "other" may be, is a profoundly human reaction to being in a shitty situation. I think you're right, too, about not having much shot of lining up the Archie Bunker vote behind Obama. There are certainly things that can be done, like increasing Obama's exposure to them. While it may not make much in the line of inroads into their racism, you may be able to move them as far as thinking "He's not much like a black guy, in fact he's half white, so he's okay I guess". But further, if these Archie Bunker types are traditional Democratic voters but can't bring themselves to vote for a black man, then I would suggest they'd be likely to just stay home from the polls (perhaps in protest, perhaps in grudging support) rather than vote for McCain. I hesitate to go any further on this, because I fear I'm trending dangerously close to vote suppression, and I really don't want to go there. Perhaps there really <b>was</b> a point to the Atrios and Armando tete-a-tete (which I didn't read, BTW) -- it got you and everyone else back talking about racial issues in a thoughtful way. Your multicultural experiences in your everyday life give you a unique perspective on these issues and (at the risk of sounding like a suckup here) you are at your very best when exploring issues of race. Very interesting Kyle, especially your thoughts about the difficulty Obama has attracting white voters only in certain areas of the country. I wonder, though, whether what distinguishes these areas from the country from, say, the west, is the Mason-Dixon line or rather one of socioeconomic status?

Perhaps Hillary’s use of the term “blue collar” is not just a subtle way of saying “white”, but instead is a dog whistle to people you have felt bypassed and disenfranchised not just during the Bush Administration but during Bill Clinton’s administration as well, and perhaps even back through GWBush and Reagan. Those folks would be the people in the Rust Belt as well as the South, and most particularly through the Appalachian regions (western VA, WV, KY, TN, southeastern OH).

People who are suffering and feel like practically the whole world is stepping on them always look for someone to see as being subordinate, hence the racial tensions. Being distrustful and disdainful of the “other”, whoever the “other” may be, is a profoundly human reaction to being in a shitty situation.

I think you’re right, too, about not having much shot of lining up the Archie Bunker vote behind Obama. There are certainly things that can be done, like increasing Obama’s exposure to them. While it may not make much in the line of inroads into their racism, you may be able to move them as far as thinking “He’s not much like a black guy, in fact he’s half white, so he’s okay I guess”.

But further, if these Archie Bunker types are traditional Democratic voters but can’t bring themselves to vote for a black man, then I would suggest they’d be likely to just stay home from the polls (perhaps in protest, perhaps in grudging support) rather than vote for McCain. I hesitate to go any further on this, because I fear I’m trending dangerously close to vote suppression, and I really don’t want to go there.

Perhaps there really was a point to the Atrios and Armando tete-a-tete (which I didn’t read, BTW) — it got you and everyone else back talking about racial issues in a thoughtful way. Your multicultural experiences in your everyday life give you a unique perspective on these issues and (at the risk of sounding like a suckup here) you are at your very best when exploring issues of race.

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