Clarity

In order of appearance: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John McCain.

 

Hillary Clinton

 

Barack obama

 

 

9 Responses to “Clarity”

  1. Hold_That_Tiger says:

    Looks about right to me kyle, except I’d move McCain further right to about 82% Conservative which was the last metric I saw him rated. I mean, 70% when he opposes Roe v Wade?

    As expected, both Clinton & Obama come out around the 80% mark as far as Liberal, which certainly seems fair, although I would say that a new concern with not being seen as “tax and spend Liberals” might skew both slightly more to the center, IMO, and when you consider what “Liberal” values means; concern with keeping the social safety net intact, a belief in Government as an agent of real change in people’s lives, etc, I would say that both Clinton and Obama fall comfortably within the Progressive agenda without riding off the rails ala Dennis Kucinich or Ralph Nadar. I think if most Americans would pull their heads out of their nether regions and realize that Democratic Values (tax parity, etc) are not only mainstream values, but in their self interest, the party could get back its barings.

  2. will reply to this later on this evening.

  3. Ron Chusid says:

    The limitation to these graphs is that they are based upon a limited number of positions as chosen by whoever compiles them. Another problem is that they typically use Congressional votes which are generally set up to fall along party lines. More differences between individuals might be seen in what they would do as president and have greater ability to set the agenda.

    I’ve also seen a similar set in the past but which had somewhat different results, and included many more politicians. It still had Clinton and Obama on one side and McCain way on the other. However it also showed Obama as being a bit more towards the center than many of the liberal Democrats on economic issues and more towards the libertarian side on social/civil liberties issues.

  4. Hold_That_Tiger says:

    ” However it also showed Obama as being a bit more towards the center than many of the liberal Democrats on economic issues and more towards the libertarian side on social/civil liberties issues.”

    Very true. Just look at the Tort Reform Act giving the Courts more sway in judging if a case has reason to be litigated. Obama voted yes (along with 44 other democrats), Clinton and Edwards were against it. And we all know that Conservatives love to squawk about Tort Reform…although I bet none of them would squawk loudly if it were their kid whose guts got sucked out by a pool filter, and they got a big judgment out of it., but I digress. I would certainly say that Obama leans a bit more toward the center than given credit for. Even on Healthcare, Obama would let adults opt out, Clinton wouldn’t (I won’t argue which is the “better” position on the matter, but will only say that Conservatives love to level “socialism” at this particular idea…) Anyway, I have heard that a main 527 smear about Obama will be that he is a “communist or a Marxist.” (Never mind that most people who throw around such terms have no understanding of what they mean.) Also that he is “The MOST Liberal Senator” a charge made completely meaningless by the “fact” that the same people who pronounced Obama most Liberal in 2008 also pronounced Kerry the most Liberal in 2004, alas the “true believers” never let facts or irony get in the way of their opinions.

  5. Ron Chusid says:

    As I’m sure the author of the above comment realizes, Obama only came out as the most liberal Senator in 2008 because he missed a lot of votes while campaigning–just as Kerry did in 2004. (I figured I should explain for the benefit of any others reading.) Besides, many of the votes which rank him as liberal have nothing to do with leftist economic beliefs. They include matters such as supporting government reform–which conservatives who supposedly hate big government should support.

    As for Obama being a Marxist, just look at his economic advisers. There sure aren’t many Marxists in the economics department of the University of Chicago. (There is a reason why all us “elitist” latte-drinking liberals back him.)

    Obama was pushed into taking a more populist tone in fighting against Clinton (and earlier Edwards) for the Democratic nomination. Now that we are moving into a general election campaign I’m hoping he could campaign on a more moderate economic platform, which will help him continue to bring in the votes of independents.

  6. Actually, it’s been interesting watching you guys discuss this. The only point that I was really making with this post was simply that every Hill supporter who swears to vote for McCain simply lacks a conviction in their values.

    Whether Clinton and Obama are really that close ideologically is up for debate. There are things that Obama tends to be more to the left on, namely; foreign policy. While Clinton will be more to the left of Obama on healthcare (though I think he does squeak a little more to the left on the economy). Neither one are, as ontheissues claims, hardcore bleeding hearts, but in our current political culture of elected officials they are counted as such because some issues, such as gay marriage, are just too toxic for a politician of virtually any stripe to come out for.

    I would have really liked to have seen some Hillary supporters comment on this because I posted it more as a rorscharch test than anything else, though; I really want to hear the justificatio for turning your back on just about everything you believe ideologically for perceived slights.

    I can understand not voting for Hillary or not voting for Obama; this is something that I’m sure everyone does. And protest votes, which are still poison in our politics, is one thing, but voting for the other side?

    At some point there has to be a moment of clarity on this kind of thing.

  7. Hold_That_Tiger says:

    I am hopeful that clarity does come to Hillary supporters once they look at the facts. I have cast 2 “protest” votes in my life; John Anderson over carter in 1980, and I didn’t pull the lever for either Dukakis or Bush 41.

    Anyway Kyle, have you read the National Review OP-ED regarding Obama’s purported hard left, quasi-socialist leanings? Obama has the NERVE to propose that the Inner city Black Churches organize and consolidate their Political Power to effect real change in their communities! Scary stuff to whitey apparently despite the fact that we secularists have been terrorized over the last 30 years with the organized Political Power of White Churches ala “The Moral Majority,” and “The Christian Coalition.” Needless to say, the writer of the OP-ED fails to appreciate this irony while making his hysterical case against Obama’s idealism (the commies are coming! Break out the McCarthyism!)

  8. Nah… I missed that, do you have a link?

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