Comments on: If I Write About It, I’ll Feel Better http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/07/if-i-write-about-it-ill-feel-better Wed, 09 May 2012 10:28:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: cha2 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/07/if-i-write-about-it-ill-feel-better/comment-page-1#comment-39808 cha2 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:49:47 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4497#comment-39808 To: bigurl Time can’t measure The inner ambiance of Real friendship Though I’ve known you Just a time ago It felts that your already A part of my peculiar life. . . Every run of seconds I know and I hope That everything is true. . . 0ne of my weakness is My friends. . . I am afraid that I would be making a fool Of my self again It hurts the deepest Part of me and it Lingers in every blood that Runs in my veins Remembering that everything I’ve done in making a home Is not good materials That’s why everytime Ii ’m making a home I’ll start it With a prayer. . . Prayer is indeed powerful! Thank you for entering the home I was about to build! Cha2 To: bigurl

Time can’t measure
The inner ambiance of
Real friendship

Though I’ve known you
Just a time ago
It felts that your already
A part of my peculiar life. . .

Every run of seconds
I know and I hope
That everything is true. . .

0ne of my weakness is
My friends. . .

I am afraid that
I would be making a fool
Of my self again

It hurts the deepest
Part of me and it
Lingers in every blood that
Runs in my veins
Remembering that everything
I’ve done in making a home
Is not good materials

That’s why everytime
Ii ’m making a home I’ll start it
With a prayer. . .

Prayer is indeed powerful!

Thank you for entering the home I was about to build!

Cha2

]]> By: Bryan http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/07/if-i-write-about-it-ill-feel-better/comment-page-1#comment-39488 Bryan Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:44:43 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4497#comment-39488 I figured the title had something to do with anger you were feeling, but my question did not stem from any misunderstanding of the title. It stems from the fact that your writing indicates that you understand waterboarding as torture. Based on that indication, I am expressing curiosity regarding the foundation of that understanding. Don't trouble yourself over the name thing. I'm not easily offended. Though I do appreciate your concern. Your last comment may be a good place to start. You call waterboarding attempted drowning. Yet the longest reported session of the modern waterboarding technique is about 30 seconds in duration (Hitchens' experience by his own report was considerably shorter than that). Is it possible to drown somebody in that length of time? I figured the title had something to do with anger you were feeling, but my question did not stem from any misunderstanding of the title. It stems from the fact that your writing indicates that you understand waterboarding as torture. Based on that indication, I am expressing curiosity regarding the foundation of that understanding.
Don’t trouble yourself over the name thing. I’m not easily offended. Though I do appreciate your concern.

Your last comment may be a good place to start. You call waterboarding attempted drowning. Yet the longest reported session of the modern waterboarding technique is about 30 seconds in duration (Hitchens’ experience by his own report was considerably shorter than that). Is it possible to drown somebody in that length of time?

]]> By: Kathy http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/07/if-i-write-about-it-ill-feel-better/comment-page-1#comment-39465 Kathy Mon, 07 Jul 2008 04:13:12 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4497#comment-39465 Bryan, not Byron. I'm sorry. Bryan, not Byron. I’m sorry.

]]> By: Kathy http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/07/if-i-write-about-it-ill-feel-better/comment-page-1#comment-39462 Kathy Mon, 07 Jul 2008 04:02:00 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4497#comment-39462 Byron, I think you may have misunderstood the title of my post. "If I Write About It, I'll Feel Better" was not a reference to a future post I was going to write. It was really a self-referential title: When I'm very angry or upset about something, it helps me to write about it. I was feeling that way when I read some of the response on the right to Christopher Hitchens' experience being waterboarded. I couldn't stop thinking about it, so I said to myself, If I write about it, I'll feel better. That became the title of the post. Kinda silly, I know, since probably no one else "got" the title's meaning except for me. I don't really have anything more to say about why waterboarding is torture, beyond what Hitchens wrote in his article and my commentary on it. Waterboarding is really a misnomer, as Hitchens himself said. It should be called what it is: drowning, or attempted drowning. Byron,

I think you may have misunderstood the title of my post. “If I Write About It, I’ll Feel Better” was not a reference to a future post I was going to write. It was really a self-referential title: When I’m very angry or upset about something, it helps me to write about it. I was feeling that way when I read some of the response on the right to Christopher Hitchens’ experience being waterboarded. I couldn’t stop thinking about it, so I said to myself, If I write about it, I’ll feel better. That became the title of the post. Kinda silly, I know, since probably no one else “got” the title’s meaning except for me.

I don’t really have anything more to say about why waterboarding is torture, beyond what Hitchens wrote in his article and my commentary on it. Waterboarding is really a misnomer, as Hitchens himself said. It should be called what it is: drowning, or attempted drowning.

]]> By: Bryan http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/07/if-i-write-about-it-ill-feel-better/comment-page-1#comment-39458 Bryan Mon, 07 Jul 2008 02:00:17 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4497#comment-39458 Kathy, have you gotten around to writing why you think waterboarding is torture? I'd like to hear the specific rationale you would use. Kathy, have you gotten around to writing why you think waterboarding is torture? I’d like to hear the specific rationale you would use.

]]> By: Cernig http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/07/if-i-write-about-it-ill-feel-better/comment-page-1#comment-39228 Cernig Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:20:46 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=4497#comment-39228 If D.Douglas is using Jeremy Slater as a source then he's being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Slater makes it quite clear he's arguing from strict utilitarian grounds, not the absolute morality that Douglas always says he believes in. Slater also argues that the process should be inside a legal framework, with "torture warrants" issued by civil judges based upon some form of extreme "just cause" and explicitly states that the secret system practised by the Bush administration is both harmful and illegal. He can't agree with Slater's argument <i>and</i> his previous moral positions without paradox. I wonder if he explains that to his rightwing readers? However, Slater's argument is deeply flawed even on a utilitarian basis. For instance, he argues that torturing innocents is no more problemmatic than imprisoning innocents, yet makes no argument that these two things are a difference in degree rather than kind. The counterargument, of course, is that prison is meant to be for rehabilitiation and unhazardous to life and limb (that it often isn't is a failure of the extant prison system, not of the concept) whereas torture is <i>intended</i> to cause harm and pain - making it indeed a difference of kind, requiring a far more rigorous argument for ignoring possible harm to innocents than Slater's analogy provides. Neither does Slater address the question of what would be proper compensation for wrongful torture - whereas the legal system pertaining to imprisonment allows for penalties ranging from hefty financial compensation in accidental cases to trial and imprisonment for deliberate ones. Would Slater, and thus Douglas, be OK with similiar but even heavier penalties for those government agents who torture or arrange the torture of innocents? A good example of why political scientists shouldn't do moral philosophy. Regards, C If D.Douglas is using Jeremy Slater as a source then he’s being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Slater makes it quite clear he’s arguing from strict utilitarian grounds, not the absolute morality that Douglas always says he believes in. Slater also argues that the process should be inside a legal framework, with “torture warrants” issued by civil judges based upon some form of extreme “just cause” and explicitly states that the secret system practised by the Bush administration is both harmful and illegal. He can’t agree with Slater’s argument and his previous moral positions without paradox. I wonder if he explains that to his rightwing readers?

However, Slater’s argument is deeply flawed even on a utilitarian basis. For instance, he argues that torturing innocents is no more problemmatic than imprisoning innocents, yet makes no argument that these two things are a difference in degree rather than kind. The counterargument, of course, is that prison is meant to be for rehabilitiation and unhazardous to life and limb (that it often isn’t is a failure of the extant prison system, not of the concept) whereas torture is intended to cause harm and pain – making it indeed a difference of kind, requiring a far more rigorous argument for ignoring possible harm to innocents than Slater’s analogy provides. Neither does Slater address the question of what would be proper compensation for wrongful torture – whereas the legal system pertaining to imprisonment allows for penalties ranging from hefty financial compensation in accidental cases to trial and imprisonment for deliberate ones. Would Slater, and thus Douglas, be OK with similiar but even heavier penalties for those government agents who torture or arrange the torture of innocents?

A good example of why political scientists shouldn’t do moral philosophy.

Regards, C

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