Comments on: Porter Goss’s Dishonest Attack on Congress http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2009/04/porter-gosss-dishonest-attack-on-congress Wed, 09 May 2012 10:28:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: opit http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2009/04/porter-gosss-dishonest-attack-on-congress/comment-page-1#comment-51364 opit Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:22:24 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=8409#comment-51364 If I called 'trolls' Quislings, would you better understand that these misrepresentations of clear records of criminal actions are part and parcel of media control - and that it extends to the Internet comment threads? Everywhere I go online I find blogpost authors assailed by denials of obvious facts by those detailed to derail honest debate at all costs. I've been reading their drivel for years ; perhaps because the comment thread at the political debating site 'Political Animal' at Washington Monthly was early recognized as a hotbed for those assaulting the lies of the 'media' and I happened to follow it closely for a couple of years. I have assembled a separate category in my Links collection to deal with the techniques of affecting peoples' perception of reasonableness : something not too hard to understand for those recalling brainwashing by the Moonies and the use of advertising techniques to propagandize Americans ( Canadians too ! ) Some of George Orwell's revelations are recapped at AlterNet under the search header Radio-shock-jock-shows-how... regardless, Moving the Overton Window is an acknowledged technique. http://my.opera.com/oldephartte/links/ If I called ‘trolls’ Quislings, would you better understand that these misrepresentations of clear records of criminal actions are part and parcel of media control – and that it extends to the Internet comment threads?
Everywhere I go online I find blogpost authors assailed by denials of obvious facts by those detailed to derail honest debate at all costs. I’ve been reading their drivel for years ; perhaps because the comment thread at the political debating site ‘Political Animal’ at Washington Monthly was early recognized as a hotbed for those assaulting the lies of the ‘media’ and I happened to follow it closely for a couple of years.
I have assembled a separate category in my Links collection to deal with the techniques of affecting peoples’ perception of reasonableness : something not too hard to understand for those recalling brainwashing by the Moonies and the use of advertising techniques to propagandize Americans ( Canadians too ! )
Some of George Orwell’s revelations are recapped at AlterNet under the search header Radio-shock-jock-shows-how… regardless, Moving the Overton Window is an acknowledged technique.
http://my.opera.com/oldephartte/links/

]]> By: Kathy http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2009/04/porter-gosss-dishonest-attack-on-congress/comment-page-1#comment-51318 Kathy Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:31:37 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=8409#comment-51318 <i>Goss’s statement seems quite clear though: The Enhanced Interrogation Techniques worked, got important actionable intelligence, Congress was briefed (both sides) back in 02? and only now are Politicians running for cover or feigning outrage.</i> And obviously you believe it, despite the fact that Goss provides no specifics to support his claim, and despite abundant, and quite specific, evidence that the use of torture did not give us any actionable intelligence that we did not already have, and that it did not foil any plots or prevent any attacks. Also despite the fact that numerous intelligence experts in the CIA and elsewhere have attested to the inefficacy of torture <b>from direct professional experience</b>. You are so ideologically committed to torture that it simply doesn't matter to you that there is no credible evidence for its effectiveness -- much less for the principal point; namely, its lawfulness. It's fact (not opinion, fact) that torture is terrible at getting accurate information, but that really isn't and shouldn't be the main point. The main point is that torture violates half a dozen different laws and legal protocols, has been consistently regarded throughout human history as an abomination, and has never been regarded as a legitimate tool for governance or national security. Bottom line: If you support the rule of law, if you believe in the rule of law, then you know that torture is a crime and must be prosecuted wherever it occurs. Period, end of story. Goss’s statement seems quite clear though: The Enhanced Interrogation Techniques worked, got important actionable intelligence, Congress was briefed (both sides) back in 02? and only now are Politicians running for cover or feigning outrage.

And obviously you believe it, despite the fact that Goss provides no specifics to support his claim, and despite abundant, and quite specific, evidence that the use of torture did not give us any actionable intelligence that we did not already have, and that it did not foil any plots or prevent any attacks. Also despite the fact that numerous intelligence experts in the CIA and elsewhere have attested to the inefficacy of torture from direct professional experience.

You are so ideologically committed to torture that it simply doesn’t matter to you that there is no credible evidence for its effectiveness — much less for the principal point; namely, its lawfulness. It’s fact (not opinion, fact) that torture is terrible at getting accurate information, but that really isn’t and shouldn’t be the main point. The main point is that torture violates half a dozen different laws and legal protocols, has been consistently regarded throughout human history as an abomination, and has never been regarded as a legitimate tool for governance or national security. Bottom line: If you support the rule of law, if you believe in the rule of law, then you know that torture is a crime and must be prosecuted wherever it occurs. Period, end of story.

]]> By: Booogie-Mann http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2009/04/porter-gosss-dishonest-attack-on-congress/comment-page-1#comment-51315 Booogie-Mann Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:15:45 +0000 http://commentsfromleftfield.com/?p=8409#comment-51315 Interesting patchwork of articles Kathy. Goss's statement seems quite clear though: The Enhanced Interrogation Techniques worked, got important actionable intelligence, Congress was briefed (both sides) back in 02' and only now are Politicians running for cover or feigning outrage. This whole issue is a circus. I agree with Goss. Meanwhile while the feigned outrage of this "scandal" captures headlines ... more important policy decisions are not being scrutinized. We still don't know what happened to the TARP money, Geithner/Obama won't tell us. Next the Obama Administration is converting Preferred Stocks in Banks to Common Shares, what is the reasoning for this?? And of course Sen. DiFi's husband got upwards of 50 billion dollar government contract AFTER DiFi interjected herself by sending a letter to a Committee she was not part of. Seems like pure GREED to me ... Interesting patchwork of articles Kathy. Goss’s statement seems quite clear though: The Enhanced Interrogation Techniques worked, got important actionable intelligence, Congress was briefed (both sides) back in 02′ and only now are Politicians running for cover or feigning outrage. This whole issue is a circus.

I agree with Goss.

Meanwhile while the feigned outrage of this “scandal” captures headlines … more important policy decisions are not being scrutinized. We still don’t know what happened to the TARP money, Geithner/Obama won’t tell us. Next the Obama Administration is converting Preferred Stocks in Banks to Common Shares, what is the reasoning for this?? And of course Sen. DiFi’s husband got upwards of 50 billion dollar government contract AFTER DiFi interjected herself by sending a letter to a Committee she was not part of. Seems like pure GREED to me …

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